AlastairH Forum Participant Posts: 30
January 2016 edited January 2016 in #1
Is there a good reason why no-one makes a lightweight refillable gas bottle (like the Safefill cylinder) but without the associated problem of finding a hassle-free place to fill it up. It seems to me that the first business to make a lightweight bottle
with the option of fitting a remote fill point would be on to a winner.
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cyberyacht Forum Participant Posts: 10,218
January 2016 edited January 2016 #2
I'm not sure I understand what you are proposing. The downside of refillables is availability of refill points. That is an issue of infrastructure, not cylinder design.
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January 2016 edited January 2016 #3
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AlastairH Forum Participant Posts: 30
January 2016 edited January 2016 #4
I am thinking of weight saving, space saving and convenience. Roughly speaking, one could have one 10kg lightweight bottle with 20 litres of gas that weighs just a little more than one full 6kg steel cylinder with only 12 litres of gas. In addition the lightweight bottle takes up only a little more room.
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Tirril Forum Participant Posts: 439
January 2016 edited January 2016 #5
I have been on Safefill for 12 months and have never been refused a fill up. I did explain to the attendant (if I had not previously used them) about Safefill and it was accepted without problem. I would have thought motorhomers would have even less challenges
as you would just draw up to the gas point with your MH and fill it from there, looking like any other gas converted vehicle. -
AlastairH Forum Participant Posts: 30
January 2016 edited January 2016 #6
With Safefill, I would be concerned about filling up on the continent. My language skills are not great so explaining the situation would be impossible for me. Also, I would not want to remove the bottle from the van if I could help it.
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DavidKlyne Club Member Posts: 13,919
January 2016 edited January 2016 #7
The larger Gaslow cylinders, whilst not lightweigh, are not as heavy as say a 13kgs Calor. There is a 7 kgs difference in weight between a 10 kg Safefill and the largest Gaslow.
David
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peedee Club Member Posts: 9,434
January 2016 edited January 2016 #8
The way I saved on weight on my last van was to have one 11Kgm Gaslow refillable cylinder with an external filler with a Calorlite bottle as backup. I never did use any of the gas in the Calorlite. You could of course fit a smaller refillable bottle if so desired saving even more weight.
peedee
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rogher Forum Participant Posts: 609
January 2016 edited January 2016 #9
If weight is an issue, I’d go for one large SafeFill. You should be able to fill that in situ on the forecourt but would have a few advantages over Gaslow. The cylinder is lighter. You can tell exactly how much is left in, so can re-fill before it’s empty.
You could nip to a local filling station with it in your car and fill up as a caravanner might. That’s what I plan to do in my next motorhome, ditching GasLow. -
AlastairH Forum Participant Posts: 30
January 2016 edited January 2016 #10
Rogher
That was my original thought but since then I have heard of many people being refused a a fillup both here and abroad. I just wonder why a lightweight bottle cannot be made with the option of a remote fill point.
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TanyaandMick Forum Participant Posts: 139
January 2016 edited January 2016 #11
We have two 11Kg Gaslow bottles with an external filling point in the skirt of the Motorhome; to-date we have not been challenged when filling up.
Considertaion for an underslung LPG tank may be next.....
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rogher Forum Participant Posts: 609
January 2016 edited January 2016 #12
Rogher
That was my original thought but since then I have heard of many people being refused a a fillup both here and abroad. I just wonder why a lightweight bottle cannot be made with the option of a remote fill point.
Well I guess you could add an external filler, Alastair, but I think you’re worrying unnecessarily. I installed GasLow in both my last two vehicles with the filler within the gas locker (because it was easier that way) and have never had a problem filling
on forecourts in over 10 years. That’s why I’m not concerned about going the SafeFill route next time, when payload will be more of an issue. -
rogher Forum Participant Posts: 609
January 2016 edited January 2016 #13
We have two 11Kg Gaslow bottles with an external filling point in the skirt of the Motorhome; to-date we have not been challenged when filling up.
Considertaion for an underslung LPG tank may be next.....
I think that an underslung tank is only an advantage if you can make good use of the space relieved in the gas locker. I don’t think they save weight and some don’t have a particularly large capacity.
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TanyaandMick Forum Participant Posts: 139
January 2016 edited January 2016 #14
A fair comment; and some examples below from Autogas Leisure....
20 Ltr (200 x 717mm)8 KG
23 Ltr (230 x 630mm)9.2 KG
25 ltr (200 x 884mm)10 KG
30 ltr (270 x 607mm)12 KG
30 ltr (200 x 1052mm)12 KG
38 ltr (230 x 1014mm)15.2 KG
40 ltr (270 x 792mm)16 KG
55 ltr (360 x 645mm)22 KG
55 ltr (270 x 1069mm)22 KG
60tr (315 x 869mm)24 KG
70 ltr (315 x 1004mm)28 KG
85 ltr (360 x 944mm)34 KG
100 ltr (360 x 1099mm)40 KG
116 ltr (360 x 1275mm)46 KG
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TanyaandMick Forum Participant Posts: 139
January 2016 edited January 2016 #15
To add to my last post http://www.autogasleisure.co.uk/gastanks.html
Thus, provides context of water Ltr to gas KG
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rogher Forum Participant Posts: 609
January 2016 edited January 2016 #16
Regarding the filling-up on a forecourt, I think that some forecourts may get ‘fussy’ if you are seen trying to fill a loose bottle. I believe the regulations state that bottles should be securely fixed to the vehicle so, as long as the bottle is strapped in and cannot move about, I think you should satisfy such rules. In general, they’re unlikely to rush out and stop you if they cannot see what you are connecting to within a locker.
I once saw someone openly filling up what looked like a conventional cylinder (without overfill protection) on a forecourt in France. They had some kind of adaptor connected. Maybe the regulations have been tightened since then but stand-alone SafeFill and AluGas bottles are becoming more common and must be filled somewhere. Don’t forget that we only get to hear about the exceptions; those who manage to fill without problem don’t make news.
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Biggarmac Forum Participant Posts: 364
January 2016 edited January 2016 #17
At the Lincoln motorhome show there was a company fitting refillable cylinders, not just the gaslow people. They fitted cylinders that people had bought elsewhere as well as their own and put a filling point on the motorhome. Sorry I don't know the name
of the company who had this service. Perhaps someone else knows? -
Pippah45 Forum Participant Posts: 2,452
January 2016 edited January 2016 #18
There seems to be quite a premium paid for GasLow as opposed to Safefill - which I have and so far have had no challenges topping it up. Mine is half full and I have had a large call on it over Christmas - I am not even sure its worth topping up yet although
I may well top up where I know I won't be challenged at my local place. A large Safefill will get you a LOT of usage - I dont consider refilling an issue as I havent been challenged yet - I put it on the backseat of the car seat belted in so no problem.
I wouldn't hesitate to go Safefill again. -
peedee Club Member Posts: 9,434
January 2016 edited January 2016 #19
Even with an external filler it not unknown to be denied refilling gas. However I think it is becoming less common as it becomes more widely known that these refillable cylinders have cut off valves. If one garage says no, move on to the next.
peedee
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rogher Forum Participant Posts: 609
January 2016 edited January 2016 #20
It is not unknown, peedee, but I don’t think it’s a common experience (unless you keep returning to the same forecourt). I think there’s a good many folk managing to fill their LPG bottles successfully. The few that have difficulty are the ones making the
noise. -
JimnyBobbins Forum Participant Posts: 61
January 2016 edited January 2016 #21
Currently out in France and we have a safefill bottle. Went to our local lpg station 10 days ago. Sticker on the pump with normal bottles and a line through it. Lady came out, we pointed to the writing on our bottle and the gauge etc and she filled it for
us. She was a bit nervous looking thinking it would explode but once I said auto finie (auto finish) she was ok. Went back today for a top up as we were passing and the chap in the shop said for camping car? My wife chatted to him saying its for our caravan
and he wished us a happy holiday etc. no problems here or in the uk. If someone says no we just show the bottle and educate it can be refilled and it says refillable on the side anyway! -
AlastairH Forum Participant Posts: 30
January 2016 edited January 2016 #22
Thanks to all for your responses. Still not sure why no-one makes a lightweight bottle that could be fitted with a separate fill point though. That would check all the boxes for me!
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JimnyBobbins Forum Participant Posts: 61
January 2016 edited January 2016 #23
My guess would be that they can't make light weight bottles to last 15 years with out a service. If light weight ones lasted 22 years say before needing a service and folks don't get them serviced but dropped it on the floor and damaged the in or outlet
then there could be a potential "bomb" waiting to go off when being filled or gas leaking out.I reckon give technology 5-10 years when carbon fibre becomes cheaper and you will see super light weight bottles and caravans!
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cyberyacht Forum Participant Posts: 10,218
January 2016 edited January 2016 #24
Carbon fibre has been around for nearly fifty years. I remember being able to specify carbon fibre hull stiffening on a class of racing dinghy at a price back in the sixties. Don't see it being "that cheap" any time soon.
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January 2016 edited January 2016 #25
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AlastairH Forum Participant Posts: 30
January 2016 edited January 2016 #26
BoleroBoy, I have a Bessacarr E520 and work on the principle that any weight saving is good. It is surprising how the weight accumulates. The last time I put the MH on a weighbridge I had 60kg spare. Since then I have added another battery and a solar panel. I am tempted to put large a Safefill bottle in the locker in place of my 2X6kg bottles and take my chances, seeing as I don't plan to remove the bottle to refill. Jimmy Bobbins does not seem to have had any problems.
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January 2016 edited January 2016 #27
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Pippah45 Forum Participant Posts: 2,452
January 2016 edited January 2016 #28
They do say that new innovations take 20 years to be accepted...... the wireless took that amount of time before it became the norm to mention just one! So I guess we need to be a bit patient and keep the information at our fingertips!
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rogher Forum Participant Posts: 609
January 2016 edited January 2016 #29
I’m not sure which adaptors you’d need to add a remote filling point to a SafeFill bottle, but I’d try asking
GaslLow. They can supply all manner of adaptors and pipes. -
AlastairH Forum Participant Posts: 30
January 2016 edited January 2016 #30
BoleroBoy, The 11kg bottle and locker fill sounds interesting. That was another option for me. I had measured my locker and reckoned I could fit the larger bottle in. Did you have to move the regulator and/or the low pressure pipe to get it in?
Rogher, For your information, Safefill say their bottle cannot be filled by a remote fill because it does not have a separate fill valve.
Thanks again to everyone who has contributed.
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JimnyBobbins Forum Participant Posts: 61
January 2016 edited January 2016 #31
I bet you probably wouldn't need a remote filling point. If you can easily get your locker by the lpg pump you could put the pump direct onto the bottle. Only limiting thing is if you can get your hands in to twist the bayonette fitting on.
French have a different connector which cost about £5-£10 and just hand screws onto the thread in our safe fill bottle.
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